League Of Losers

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:58 pm

Top laners that pick up a Doran's Shield will now block 13 (!) flat damage from autoattacks. Guess where all of Irelia and Jax's damage comes from?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:10 pm

Korgan0 wrote:
Surgo wrote:
Korgan0 wrote:What do y'all think of the Dorans changes?
I wasn't aware that Irelia and Jax needed another nerf.
I don't see how this is a nerf to either Irelia or Jax: Doran's Blade is unchanged, which is my standard start if I wanna trade early, and a boots/pots opening got buffed, with cloth/pots remaining unchanged.

I think the point is that everyone that Irelia or Jax goes against will be using the boots/pots opening or shield/pots opening. While people who use Doran's Blade got no such buff.

It doesn't effect bot so much, because both adcs were going to use blade anyway. It nerfs tops that use blade as compared to tops that don't, because the person across from them now has more pots.

EDIT: They changed how much the shield blocks? That sucks, I didn't even notice that.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:24 pm

It makes irelia and jax more swingy, because it doesn't stop their obnoxious lategame snowball but it kills their earlygame even more. It's like they noticed the problem with sejuani in the jungle and then decided to move it up to top lane.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:29 pm

They changed the shield's block but also removed the 5 armor it gave. It's pretty much a wash for Irelia as she deals physical damage with her ult and...well her Q applies on-hit effects, but is it counted as a basic attack? I need to Q a Pantheon and find out. If Q is blocked the shield change is a problem for her, if not then who gives a crap.

Shield is still going to be a niche pick for top since you can't get a ward with it unless you go deep into utility.

Ultimately, the buff to boots + pots is really, really good for Irelia. She can start boots + 2 pots + ward now, making it much harder to gank her early. I was tired of flask + ward + pot.

Doran's Shield will be required on all supports now, either straight up starting with it (Shield + single ward) if you can dominate lane or building it on your first back.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:50 pm

Assuming they go 9/21/0, which most do, yeah, I guess you're right. That is a helluva nerf.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:07 pm

I'm 85% sure it affects her q.

Also, only one ward on a support? Only 1 ward will get you really screwed if they counter-ward. I feel like shield could support aggressive melee supports and it'd be great for a first back, but sona, janna, and co. would probably be better off with the mana, 3 wards, and 2 pots.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:03 pm

Can you Kill Steal in LoL? I tried playing again yesterday, selected Veigar and went into a Coop vs. AI match (since I'm just lvl 12 I don't want to be the weak point in a "real" match). As you know, Veigar has a slow start, but if you farm AD during the match he'll be a beast by end.

By level 13 or so, the guys at top lane were screaming that I was a "fucking KSer" whenever I saw that there was an enemy concentration on their area and went there to help. In about 50% of my matches so far somebody awards me the "team spirit" merit (no idea about the English name), because I use Veigar's E to assist people to make kills / escape all the fucking time (I always end a match with more assists than kills).

So, did I violate some unspoken etiquette rule? Were the top lane players just being dipshits? Confused here.

Almaz · Post by **Almaz** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:16 pm

90% of the time, players complaining about a "KS" are fretting over it needlessly. It's very rude if you drop all your stuff to kill someone who is already "dead" at someone else's hands for sure, otherwise ignore them. It's better if anyone on your team gets the kill, than no one getting the kill. There's a slight meta-concern where you don't want the support in bottom lane supporting the AD carry to have more kills than the AD carry, but most supports will not have those kills unless the AD carry is _terrible_, and usually it means the AD carry will get more kills in the long run anyways.

In short, you can safely ignore anyone who says "KS" or "killsteal" in LoL.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:17 pm

People play bot games to feel good about themselves, because bots are easy to kill and you'll generally be able to do it if you just run in and roll your face across the keyboard.

So when there was a big concentration of enemies, your fellow laners were probably were thinking "oh yeah im so cool im gonna get tripul killz", but then you came up and were useful in the fight but took a kill or two. That makes them feel bad because their e-peen isn't as big as it could have been, and it's all your fault.

Most of the time those players don't actually get kills anyways because if you haven't stomped the bots earlygame, their auto-reflexes and excessive gold make free kills difficult, but that doesn't stop them from screaming at you.

TLDR: They're dipshits, ignore them.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:21 pm

I've reached a high enough MMR in both normals and ranked that I never see the words "KS" anymore. When I play with others sometimes I see it, but I make sure to inform them that they're being retarded when they say it. That being said, the people in my MMR are smart enough that they also understand who should be getting the last-hits on champions and when they should be getting them.

I doubt we'll ever see a Doran's Shield start on supports (wards too important), but there's no reason they wouldn't pick it up on the first back.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:28 pm

...You Lost Me wrote:I'm 85% sure it affects her q.

Also, only one ward on a support? Only 1 ward will get you really screwed if they counter-ward. I feel like shield could support aggressive melee supports and it'd be great for a first back, but sona, janna, and co. would probably be better off with the mana, 3 wards, and 2 pots.

That totally sucks if it screws up her Q, though I'd still be surprised if people start shield against her. Starting shield against Irelia means you might very well out-trade her early, but you're also going to die to a gank when you push because you keep trading with her and couldn't afford a ward.

You can safely start one ward as a support if your mid lane wards the enemy wraiths (and most mid laners will do this) or you're a heavy peeling support like Ali or Janna. The only real threat to a bot lane without many wards is a lane gank, and the new jungle is making those less attractive since spawn times are improved.

The new shield gives too much effective hp in bot lane (compared to the normal start) to be ignored. It's 8 extra health every auto attack, sustain, and bonus max HP. The old shield was useful on some supports before, though strictly as a first-back item, the new one is just fucking crazy unless you're against Draven or Graves or some other quasi-AD caster. Hell, you might want to start with the new shield on weaker laning ADs like Vayne paired with a passive support. Pot + shield is a lot of sustain if you plan on last hitting under turret for a while.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:43 am

I usually play Sona support, and thanks to her high burst and range on her Q, along with its lack of targeting, it's very easy for me to steal kills that should go to the ADC. If that happens, I usually apologize, but I've never seen anyone rage over it.

The people in your game were just total wankers.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:28 pm

KS = kill secure, unless you knew the enemy flash and all escapes/shields were down, wasn't going to kill anyone or hurt them enough to prevent a push, and didn't have teammates on the way. It's too easy to throw a game by letting their 50 hp vayne walk into a bush then juke you or tumble -> condemn -> skullfuck somebody on your team.

So KS = kill secure in almost every conceivable situation. Getting an extra 225 or so gold (depending on the number of people assisting) on a certain champion isn't worth possibly throwing that gold away or hurting your ability to make plays off the kill.

Anyone who says you KSed them is just thanking you for securing the gold for your team. The proper response is "you're welcome for the assist gold," with an optional "bitch" at the end.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Yesterday I noticed people throwing KS insults at each other during a match. If this kind of shit is becoming the norm on the brazilian server I may consider changing my default location. It'll be a bitch to give up my current ping of 40, but if this means playing with a more mature player base, it can be worth.

I also experimented with a different way of building Veigar's skills (maxing Q and E first) and that was great for my AP farming.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:12 pm

If you're into Veigar I'd suggest maxing Q first and putting two points into your stun before even bothering to skill the AoE. Your AoE isn't going to hit anyone until the stun has two levels in it, and its base damage scaling is good, but not that big of a deal.

Q maxing is the best because of the bonus AP on kills; Veigar is really good at getting mid-game kills and you want to snowball hard off that.

So how about the new champ Aatrox or whatever his name is? I played a few games against him (and often with him on my team as well), and he seems to be a better Irelia who's more vulnerable to CC. His base stats are utter shit though, so you can slap him around with all-in laners and invade junglers. Nocturne would be a particularly nasty pick against him, as he relies on not being CCed and being able to use his knockup to win a straight up fight with a real bruiser.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:11 pm

Yeah, he's absurdly squishy early: MF has higher base HP than he does. He seems a bit like Renekton, except much weaker early: good sustain, good laner, great diver.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:47 pm

So, I've been watching the most recent LCS matches (jesus C9 are good) and what I've been seeing is that pretty much everyone builds a tear on Karthus, and then turns it into an Archangel's late game. Pretty much every other build on Karthus that I've seen skips tear entirely, as he gets plenty of mana with an RoA and his E-passive, and spends the gold on a DCap or Vstaff or something. Any thoughts?

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:28 am

The point of the AA is that the RoA-AA-Deathcap trio is both absurdly high AP and really good survivability.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:31 am

But since Karthus doesn't need the extra mana, wouldn't that gold be better spent on something like an Abyssal?

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:21 am

That would be substantially less AP (and thus, damage on the ultimate). Survivability that it offers is only one-sided, whereas the survivability that AA offers is against both physical and magical.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:04 pm

Karthus wants a tear because if he loses blue he goes oom super fast if there's a skirmish anywhere and it makes him super strong late game when it becomes an embrace.

Karthus wants a RoA because it keeps him up a little longer and gives him hp sustain in lane.

Karthus usually doesn't want both unless he's fine with not having any bonus AP for the first fifteen minutes of the game. Competitive teams can deal with this because they communicate and can compensate in some way. Going tear + RoA in solo queue is putting a lot of faith in your team by making it so you can't destroy mid-game fights with good positioning and defile.

Basically, competitive teams can usually build whatever they want because the team will build based around weird things (warmogs Anivia, Urgot tanky DPS, etc). In solo queue you tend to see more cookie-cutter builds because people expect certain champs to do certain things. If you go jungler bruiser Gragas in solo queue you'll probably lose because your team thinks it's getting an AP burster and plans around having an AP buster.

Tear on Karthus is good though, and will always be good until tear finally gets nerfed (for reasons unrelated to Karthus).

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:25 pm

Yeah, on the PBE it's set to give +3 mana per charge instead of +4; it's to deal with Jayce, Kha'zix, and blue build Ez, right? I'm worried it'll be a big nerf to Ryze, since tear is such a core item on him anyways, but at worst it'll tone down his mid-game, which is kinda weak in any case, but it won't hurt his lategame terror potential.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:57 pm

It's a big nerf to Kha, a moderate nerf to blue build Ez, and a minor nerf to Jayce. It basically says "if you don't upgrade me I will stack incredibly slowly," and kha/ez usually waited a bit to upgrade tear. Jayce doesn't give a shit because he can spam free transformations to stack it, it just stacks a little slower (not that he cared to upgrade it too fast anyways).

I'm glad they nerfed it. Now it makes sense to upgrade it to Archangel's/manamune early instead of waiting until max stacks for a huge burst in power.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm

He can't spam transformations anymore -- they won't stack tear in the upcoming patch.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:48 pm

Surgo wrote:He can't spam transformations anymore -- they won't stack tear in the upcoming patch.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. With one fell swoop Jayce is gone.

Fuck you, Jayce. Your poke was impossible to dodge sans flash if used correctly. May you never be picked again you smug motherfucker.

Sorry to anyone who liked Jayce, but that shit was out of hand. At least you can dodge spears, you have less than a second to dodge shock blast's frankly ridiculous AoE.

God I was tired of seeing Jayce in every game.